
Editor’s note: In light of the conflagration ignited by last week’s post, a few words seem in order.
The fact that the piece had such reverberations throughout the Pagan community seems a sign that HP has grown, enough that we now have readers extending far beyond the naturalist community. Thus, we naturalists cannot speak as if only speaking to each other anymore (if we ever could). In point of fact, M. J.’s post was originally posted to an email list comprised only of naturalists. But by bringing it to the HP blog, the audience changed and the piece changed along with it. As editor, I take responsibility for publishing the piece, indeed for encouraging M. J. to publish it, as well as for the choice of image.
Recently Star Foster organized a Live Pagan Hangout on active tolerance, in which many good things were said. Crystal Blanton‘s comments stood out most to me: “We spend so much time defining our path that we can get lost in other people’s paths.” She also said: “We need to be able to speak up about the expectation of respect for one another, and when we do it – and here’s the key – we need to be sure we’re also doing it with respect.”
To help move in the right direction, Thalassa has graciously let us repost her pointers on interfaith sensitivity, originally published at Musings of a Kitchen Witch. Numbers 8, 9, and 10 seem most apropos at the moment. – B. T. Newberg
With much help from (and much thanks to) the folks at the Pagan Forum and CafeMom’s Religious Debate section for their constructive ideas, I’ve been working on list of behaviors and attitudes to reduce conflict over religious beliefs between individuals. Think of this as Miss Manners putting the smackdown on multi-faith and interfaith discussions and debates!
Thalassa’s Etiquette Guidelines for Interfaith Discussion

Thalassa: I’m a (occasionally) doting wife, damn proud momma of two adorable children, veteran of the United States Navy, part-time steampunk hausfrau, a beach addict from middle America, Civil War reenactor and Victorian natural history aficionado, a canoeing fanatic, Unitarian Universalist and pantheistic Pagan,and a kitchen witch and devotee of various aquatic deities.

In light of last week’s controversy, this week we review some basic interfaith pointers with Thalassa.
Etiquette for interfaith discussions, by Thalassa
Appearing Sunday, June 10, 2012

This is the second in the series integrating Loyal Rue’s work. This time I need your help to discover is what functions as our root metaphor.
What are our root metaphors?, by B. T. Newberg
Appearing Sunday, June 10, 2012

Alison Leigh Lily, of No Unsacred Place and the new podcast Faith, Fern & Compass, illucidates issues facing the Contemporary Pagan community.
Sustainable Pagan communities: An interview with Alison Leigh Lily
Appearing Sunday, June 17, 2012
Why do people want supernatural gods?, by M. J. Lee
Seton Setting: Something special may happen, by Thomas Schenk
Managing human nature: A job description for HP, by B. T. Newberg
Today, Venus will pass between the Earth and the Sun. This event only happens twice every 120 years. The transit begins at 3:06 p.m. and lasts for roughly 6.5 hours.
Prof. Adrienne Cool says in an SFSU article:
“It instantaneously gives you this sense of scale,” Cool said. “Venus is about the size of the Earth, and we’re going to see it as this tiny dot crossing the sun. It’s humbling and fun to see that directly.”
The article continues:
First observed in 1639, astronomers realized they could measure the solar system by timing the transit from various locations on Earth, comparing differences in timing at those locations to measure the distance of Venus and Earth from the sun, and then applying those measurements to already-known relative distances of the planets.
I hate to admit it but I do feel some animosity toward hard polytheists. I feel as if they have stolen the gods (which of course belong neither to me nor to them, but to their own time and place).
The gods have meaning precisely because they are symbols, symbols of the power, the mystery of life, of nature, of the world. When the gods are conceived as supernatural people this meaning is lost.
A literal view of the gods has all the intellectual problems of the Christian gods (and I do mean gods, plural – Christians are only monotheists because they re-defined god, which for the ancient Greeks theo meant “deathless”). If the world is full of enlightened superbeings, why isn’t it more obvious? The gods as superbeings come off seeming un-god-like, small, weak and insignificant. Even if they do exist, I don’t see why we should care.
I just don’t get it, and that is the question that needs to be answered. Why do people want supernatural gods?
I don’t think people create or turn to supernatural beings because they have been befuddled by the use of personified symbols. It is not the symbol that is the cause, it is the need.
I think if religious naturalism can truly meet our instinctual needs, the needs religion traditionally addressed, then it will grow and supernaturalism will decrease; if not, then humans will continue to find new and ingenious ways to justify supernaturalism and supernaturalism will grow (with or without personified symbols).
I think there is good evidence that the rise of supernatural literalism in paganism and Christianity is not a return to traditional religion but is a reaction to our societal problems, our disconnected, fast-paced, de-humanized world (see Karen Armstrong’s book “The Case for God” and On Being’s (formally Speaking of Faith) interview with religious historian Martin Marty).
Naturalistic earth/nature-centered religion faces a lot of challenges. For many people, nature is just not a suitable object of reverence; nature is just not god-like.
We are taught that nature is like a machine. It is an object without will, without purpose, and without consciousness (for many people, saying that nature has consciousness and we are it is not satisfying).
For many modern urbanites, nature is not really awe-inspiring. We do not feel fear and trembling in the face of the great power of nature. We rarely feel vulnerable in nature (unless we seek this out by putting ourselves in remote and dangerous situations). Our survival and happiness is seen as depending on human ingenuity or perhaps God’s will, but certainly not on the “will” of nature.
Many Christians feel it is inappropriate to express thanks and gratitude toward nature. Since nature has no will, it cannot really “give” us anything (they are of course strongly against any form of personification of nature, especially with religious connotations).
More important than being intellectually satisfying, religion needs to be emotionally satisfying. I wonder if nature can really fulfill our emotional needs without some level of personification. To call nature our Mother is to personify nature, to make an analogy between human mothers and the earth (see the discussion in response to Rua Lupa’s “Understanding word use and how science relates to myth and religion“).
Given our culture, I can understand why some people are very skeptical about using myth and mythic symbols in religious naturalism. Myth is a very powerful technique for “writing on the tablet of the heart” as David M. Carr puts it, for conveying meaning, values and even information so important we should never forget it.
Yet, the symbols and metaphors of myth are only meaningful if everyone understands what they are referring to. If everyone in our culture insists that myths and the characters in myths must be taken literally (so that myth is judged as true or false history/science, not as true or false metaphor), then we will not be able to use myth or mythic symbols, and I think our religion will be diminished for it.

Maggie Jay Lee lives in west Tennessee with her husband, cat and two
dogs. When she is not working as an environmental consultant, she likes to spend
her time enjoying nature, dancing and learning about this strange, beautiful world.
Maggie is a naturalistic pagan with a particular interest in ancient Greek religion.
Check out Maggie Jay Lee’s other post:

Are hard polytheists stealing the gods? And if so, what do we stand to lose?
Why do people want supernatural gods?, by Maggie Jay Lee
Appearing Sunday, June 3, 2012

This is the second in the series integrating Loyal Rue’s work. This time I need your help: what could function as our root metaphor?
Nature: A root metaphor for HP?, by B. T. Newberg
Appearing Sunday, June 10, 2012
Seton Setting: Something special may happen, by Thomas Schenk
Managing human nature: A job description for HP, by B. T. Newberg
The impossibility of atheism, by Bart Everson